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	<title>Stephen Foskett, Pack Rat &#187; hot spare Archives  &#8211; Stephen Foskett, Pack Rat</title>
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		<title>Grapples and Tangelos: Why it&#8217;s Impossible to Compare Fairly</title>
		<link>http://blog.fosketts.net/2008/08/28/grapples-tangelos-impossible-compare-fairly/</link>
		<comments>http://blog.fosketts.net/2008/08/28/grapples-tangelos-impossible-compare-fairly/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 01:59:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Enterprise storage]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[3PAR]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Compellent]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Dell]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[EMC]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[EqualLogic]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[HDS]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[hot spare]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[HP]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[IBM]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[LeftHand]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[NetApp]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[RAID 5]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[RAID DP]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[RFP]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[space reservation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Sun]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.fosketts.net/?p=513</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I get the same questions all the time: Should I buy X or Y? Is Z better than Q? But as much as it sounds like a cop-out, I always answer, &#8220;well, this sounds like a cop-out, but that depends on what you&#8217;re doing with it&#8230;&#8221; Now EMC&#8217;s Chuck Hollis has (bravely) stuck his neck [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I get the same questions all the time: Should I buy X or Y? Is Z better than Q? But as much as it sounds like a cop-out, I always answer, &#8220;well, this sounds like a cop-out, but that depends on what you&#8217;re doing with it&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Now EMC&#8217;s Chuck Hollis has (bravely) stuck his neck out to try to actually <a rel="nofollow" href="http://chucksblog.typepad.com/chucks_blog/2008/08/your-storage-mi.html"  target="_blank">compare the capacity efficiency three storage arrays</a> in a realistic way. Good luck, Chuck! I can hear the knives sharpening over at NetApp and HP already!</p>
<p><span id="more-513"></span><strong>Why This is a Good Idea</strong></p>
<p>In all seriousness, this is exactly the sort of analysis that <em>customers</em> ought to be taking on. Buying a new storage device? Spec out <em>how you want to use it</em> and ask for proposals from vendors that are configured according to recommended practice. That&#8217;s the only way to really compare two devices: Real usable configurations.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not realistic to expect that an EMC array with the same capacity and number of disks as a supposedly similar device is going to give you the same usable space, performance, energy efficiency, manageability, or really anything else. Despite the basic architectural similarities of, say, a CLARiiON and an EVA, there are just too many critical differences to think of them as a pair of apples, even if you strive for the same specs.</p>
<p>In fact, <em>there are no apples or oranges</em> anymore. No one uses straight textbook RAID. No one makes a pure NAS filer or Fibre Channel array or anything. They&#8217;ve all evolved away from the basics we think we understand, adding in a little midrange, a dash of green, and a dollop of iSCSI to become a field of <a rel="nofollow" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grāpple"  target="_blank">grapples</a>, <a rel="nofollow" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tangelo"  target="_blank">tangelos</a>, <a rel="nofollow" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limequat"  target="_blank">limequats</a>, and <a rel="nofollow" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pluot"  target="_blank">pluots</a>.</p>
<p><strong>Why EMC Shouldn&#8217;t Be Doing It</strong></p>
<p>All that being said, I think it&#8217;s beyond perilous for a <em>vendor</em> to try to set up a standardized comparison of capacity, just like it is foolish to try to get some kind of meaningful performance statistic between such diverse platforms.</p>
<p>Even when (as appears to be the case here) a vendor tries to follow their competitors&#8217; recommendations, they&#8217;ll likely not end up with the same configuration that an experienced Systems Engineer from that company would put together. Often, these smart guys know the real-world implications of the system and can put together a system that matches the requirements better.</p>
<p>Regarding EMC&#8217;s specific comparison, I do have some questions, however:</p>
<ol>
<li>Does EMC really support using the five vault reserve disks on a CLARiiON to hold production data? EMC SE&#8217;s have suggested to me in the past that this is a bad idea&#8230;</li>
<li>Would EMC really suggest 8+1 RAID 5 for a production Exchange and SQL Server environment?</li>
<li>Is one hot spare per two DAEs (30 drives) really sufficient for a whole pile of 9-disk RAID 5 sets that are maxed-out with production data? I&#8217;d feel much more comfortable with a few more spares with such large RAID 5 sets.</li>
<li>There is no way 14+2 RAID DP is equivalent to 4+1 RAID 5, let alone 8+1. It&#8217;s in a different league of reliability.</li>
<li>Yeah, NetApp&#8217;s space reserve recommendation stinks. But you probably won&#8217;t need 100% in production &#8211; the real amount is something one would work out when testing and piloting and is probably substantially less than this.</li>
</ol>
<p>I&#8217;m not trying to get into an argument about this, mind, just noting a few items that immediately jumped out at me. And if I could see these five issues in my quick read, I can just imaging what HP and NetApp will see! Watch out for the knives, Chuck! I know you mean well, but exercises like this just won&#8217;t ever work.</p>
<p>And where are HDS, Sun, and IBM? Plus, I would <em>love</em> to see 3PAR, Compellent, Dell/EqualLogic, LeftHand, and the rest jump in with their numbers! Maybe I should set up a sham RFP and ask the vendors to respond <em>with their own systems</em> for some real comparison!</p>
<p>(This post was updated for clarification and to add that last suggestion&#8230;)</p>
<div id="crp_related"><h3>You might also want to read these other posts...</h3><ul><li><a href="http://blog.fosketts.net/2008/10/01/storage-utilization-waterfall-raw-usable/"  rel="bookmark" class="crp_title">The Storage Utilization Waterfall: Raw, Usable, and Used</a></li><li><a href="http://blog.fosketts.net/2011/08/25/pricing-squishy-competition-heats/"  rel="bookmark" class="crp_title">When Pricing Gets Squishy Competition Heats Up</a></li><li><a href="http://blog.fosketts.net/2008/12/12/emulated-fibre-channel-virtualization/"  rel="bookmark" class="crp_title">Of Emulated Fibre Channel, Virtualization, And The Right Tool For The Job</a></li><li><a href="http://blog.fosketts.net/2008/09/15/greenbytes-embraces-extends-zfs/"  rel="bookmark" class="crp_title">greenBytes Embraces and Extends ZFS</a></li><li><a href="http://blog.fosketts.net/2008/02/19/apple-revs-xsan-and-kills-xserve-raid/"  rel="bookmark" class="crp_title">Apple Revs Xsan and Kills Xserve RAID?</a></li></ul></div><script src="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~s/sfoskett?i=http://blog.fosketts.net/2008/08/28/grapples-tangelos-impossible-compare-fairly/" type="text/javascript" charset="utf-8"></script><hr />
<p><small>© sfoskett for <a href="http://blog.fosketts.net">Stephen Foskett, Pack Rat</a>, 2008. |
<a href="http://blog.fosketts.net/2008/08/28/grapples-tangelos-impossible-compare-fairly/">Grapples and Tangelos: Why it&#8217;s Impossible to Compare Fairly</a>
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